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Engine only upgrade - to an older version ?

lifalin2016
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Hi list.

I try to only make a full install once a year, when a new year release (e.g. 2021.0) is available, and use "engine only" for the lesser updates.

I've just installed 2021.0 on our servers, and have encountered some problems that warrants installation action.

In this scenario, is it possible to do a downgrade as an "engine only" update, or is that only possible for newer updates ?

I.e., how tight are the GUI/queue frameworks tied to the engine versions ?

Any insights are appriciated.

Cheers.

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Best answer by lifalin2016 25 August 2021, 14:36

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-- Cheers, Lars I.

9 replies

hkingsbury
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(Not really a direct answer to your question) Generally we try to avoid the xxxx.0 releases and focus on xxxx.1 or xxxx.2 for our rollouts. Generally any bugs that exist in xxxx.0 are resolved in the future releases

You might not have noticed, but 2021.1 was released a few hours ago. Could it be worth trying that? Ideally wait a few days for some newer build to come out with any hotfixes in them

Check out the Abley FME Firesides on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@ableyltd
lifalin2016
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Userlevel 1
Badge +22

(Not really a direct answer to your question) Generally we try to avoid the xxxx.0 releases and focus on xxxx.1 or xxxx.2 for our rollouts. Generally any bugs that exist in xxxx.0 are resolved in the future releases

You might not have noticed, but 2021.1 was released a few hours ago. Could it be worth trying that? Ideally wait a few days for some newer build to come out with any hotfixes in them

Thanks @hkingsbury​ 

I was aware of the 2021.1 release, and was treading water until it was released, as I would test whether this solved our problem. That would be a nice plan A.

I was just wondering, short of reinstalling a full 2020.2, what was possible.

If "engine only" 2021.1 doesn't solve the problem, I might give "engine only" 2020.2 a try. At least it's easy to switch between these engine updates.

I hear your pitch about the *.0 releases. Unfortunately when it comes to server, the whole GUI typically has a lot of new features, that could be relevant, so it's a calculated risk, and sometimes you loose out :-/

Cheers

-- Cheers, Lars I.
mark2atsafe
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Userlevel 4
Badge +25

Hi @Lars I Nielsen​ 

Ideally, you want to have your builds of Desktop and Server in sync, otherwise the desktop could create translations that the server couldn't run.

But if they are out of sync, would they still be compatible? Well, remember that FME versions are numbered in the structure 2021.x.y.z

  • x is a "major" release
  • y is a "minor" release
  • z is a "micro" release.

To the best of our ability, all minor releases are compatible with other minor releases in the same major. For example, 2021.0.1 will be compatible with 2021.0.2.

Similarly, all micro releases are compatible with other micro releases in the same minor release. For example, 2021.0.1.1 will be compatible with 2021.0.1.2

So I get what @hkingsbury​ is saying, and if I had to manage a large installation I'd perhaps definitely be more cautious too. But if 2021.0.0.0 did have a problem, we'd release 2021.0.0.1 and it would be compatible. For example, you could update desktop to 2021.0.0.1 and keep your engines on 2021.0.0.0 (or vice versa of course).

I wouldn't make a guarantee, because it depends on the exact problem, but we'd do our best to keep things compatible.

If it's unavoidable for you to have one FME newer than another, you want the engine to be the newer one. Again, it's because if the desktop is newer it could create a translation the engine couldn't handle; but the engine will always be able to handle older workspaces.

I hope this helps.

hkingsbury
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Userlevel 5
Badge +29

Hi @Lars I Nielsen​ 

Ideally, you want to have your builds of Desktop and Server in sync, otherwise the desktop could create translations that the server couldn't run.

But if they are out of sync, would they still be compatible? Well, remember that FME versions are numbered in the structure 2021.x.y.z

  • x is a "major" release
  • y is a "minor" release
  • z is a "micro" release.

To the best of our ability, all minor releases are compatible with other minor releases in the same major. For example, 2021.0.1 will be compatible with 2021.0.2.

Similarly, all micro releases are compatible with other micro releases in the same minor release. For example, 2021.0.1.1 will be compatible with 2021.0.1.2

So I get what @hkingsbury​ is saying, and if I had to manage a large installation I'd perhaps definitely be more cautious too. But if 2021.0.0.0 did have a problem, we'd release 2021.0.0.1 and it would be compatible. For example, you could update desktop to 2021.0.0.1 and keep your engines on 2021.0.0.0 (or vice versa of course).

I wouldn't make a guarantee, because it depends on the exact problem, but we'd do our best to keep things compatible.

If it's unavoidable for you to have one FME newer than another, you want the engine to be the newer one. Again, it's because if the desktop is newer it could create a translation the engine couldn't handle; but the engine will always be able to handle older workspaces.

I hope this helps.

Thanks Mark, that's really helpful information around the major/minor/micro releases.

Check out the Abley FME Firesides on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@ableyltd
lifalin2016
Rank
Userlevel 1
Badge +22

Hi @Lars I Nielsen​ 

Ideally, you want to have your builds of Desktop and Server in sync, otherwise the desktop could create translations that the server couldn't run.

But if they are out of sync, would they still be compatible? Well, remember that FME versions are numbered in the structure 2021.x.y.z

  • x is a "major" release
  • y is a "minor" release
  • z is a "micro" release.

To the best of our ability, all minor releases are compatible with other minor releases in the same major. For example, 2021.0.1 will be compatible with 2021.0.2.

Similarly, all micro releases are compatible with other micro releases in the same minor release. For example, 2021.0.1.1 will be compatible with 2021.0.1.2

So I get what @hkingsbury​ is saying, and if I had to manage a large installation I'd perhaps definitely be more cautious too. But if 2021.0.0.0 did have a problem, we'd release 2021.0.0.1 and it would be compatible. For example, you could update desktop to 2021.0.0.1 and keep your engines on 2021.0.0.0 (or vice versa of course).

I wouldn't make a guarantee, because it depends on the exact problem, but we'd do our best to keep things compatible.

If it's unavoidable for you to have one FME newer than another, you want the engine to be the newer one. Again, it's because if the desktop is newer it could create a translation the engine couldn't handle; but the engine will always be able to handle older workspaces.

I hope this helps.

Thanks Mark.

I do try to keep our desktop and servers in sync, but my current problem caught me by surprise, so I'm exploring options to remedy the problem here.

This issue with 2021.0 is the very same issue that you're looking at in my support case. Just so you know.

I did do the engine only update on my 2021.0.2 server to 2021.1.0, but the workspace (now versioned 2021.0.2) still fails.

I assume that doing an "engine only" upgrade (downgrade) of the 2021.0.2 server to 2020.2.x is out of the question ? I do need to do a full 2020.2 re-installation ??

 

-- Cheers, Lars I.
lifalin2016
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Userlevel 1
Badge +22

On a related note:

Can a saved 2021.x configuration file (using the backup function) be read by a 2020.x server ?

 

I assume that a saved configuration file can be read by any higher version than what created it.

-- Cheers, Lars I.
lifalin2016
Rank
Userlevel 1
Badge +22

Thanks Mark.

I do try to keep our desktop and servers in sync, but my current problem caught me by surprise, so I'm exploring options to remedy the problem here.

This issue with 2021.0 is the very same issue that you're looking at in my support case. Just so you know.

I did do the engine only update on my 2021.0.2 server to 2021.1.0, but the workspace (now versioned 2021.0.2) still fails.

I assume that doing an "engine only" upgrade (downgrade) of the 2021.0.2 server to 2020.2.x is out of the question ? I do need to do a full 2020.2 re-installation ??

 

Just tried the downgrade engine idea, and it failed miserably. Lots of REST errors.

-- Cheers, Lars I.
mark2atsafe
Rank
Userlevel 4
Badge +25

Thanks Mark.

I do try to keep our desktop and servers in sync, but my current problem caught me by surprise, so I'm exploring options to remedy the problem here.

This issue with 2021.0 is the very same issue that you're looking at in my support case. Just so you know.

I did do the engine only update on my 2021.0.2 server to 2021.1.0, but the workspace (now versioned 2021.0.2) still fails.

I assume that doing an "engine only" upgrade (downgrade) of the 2021.0.2 server to 2020.2.x is out of the question ? I do need to do a full 2020.2 re-installation ??

 

I've ask a server expert to chime in with an opinion. I honestly thought that downgrading should be fine, as long as it is no older than the Server infrastructure version. But, yeah, maybe our support folk will know better.

lifalin2016
Rank
Userlevel 1
Badge +22

Closing this thread.

My conclusion is, that only a full remove/reinstall works. Our servers now run 2020.2.5

The servers are running on virtual iron, so I guess I'll have the IT department do a full backup of the servers I fully upgrade the next time around. Enables an easier rollback.

-- Cheers, Lars I.

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